Another random list… cause that’s how I roll…
- Justice has a job! He is helping with the filming of the local high school football games. This was his 2nd week, and he loves it!
- Speaking of Justice, he’ll be 15 in 5 days. Crazy town!
- I finally caught up with my bcf, the Kendster! We chatted for 2 1/2 hours the other day and could have gone on for another 12! That’s what happens when we only talk once every six months. We really need to chat more often, but between my 6 kids and her 10 kids – finding time to chat on the phone is challenging.
- I need help. I Timothy 2:15 says “Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.” (NKJV) and I can’t figure out what it means. I’ve read three commentaries, and they all said different things, and they were all pure conjecture. I’ve worn out my concordance. I have a couple of ideas of what it might mean, but I’m not satisfied yet. So please, if you have insight to offer, please do. I need to move on. lol (I won’t share what I think it might mean with you yet, so it doesn’t cloud your opinions on the verse.)
- We are on day 2 of a 10 day field exercise wherein the hubster can’t even call. *sad face*
- I forgot to get laundry detergent the last two times I went to the store, and now I’m completely out. I’ve been out for two days. Which means I have an ever-growing pile of laundry. Must go to the store tomorrow! (I don’t think I’ve ever actually run out before – it’s so unlike me.)
- Paige’s eye teeth need to just hurry up and cut through the gums. She was sleeping so well, but the last couple of nights she’s been up fussing. She usually gets a runny nose and a fever when she’s teething, but this time she has diarrhea which means diaper rash (which we are keeping under control, but still – it’s no fun)… and this has gone on for nearly two weeks. I just don’t function properly on interrupted sleep! Here’s hoping she sleeps all night tonight!! I gave her Tylenol before bed, but she usually wakes up around the time it wears off, and even if I give her more, she is up for a while – last night? from 1 am to after 3 am… *sigh* (eta 9/4/10: Paige slept from 7:30 last night until 9:20 this morning!! Hallelujah!!)
- Paige has been talking more – it’s SO cute. I LOVE this age. (aside from the teething – ha!) She’s so playful and giggles when we tickle her or chase her. She gives the sweetest little hugs and kisses (and I can’t get enough of those). Now she says “eat” as she does the sign for it. She’s walking a little bit. She’s still nervous about it though.
- Jarvis is loving his soccer team – games start pretty soon.
- Jacob went on his first “friend” outing without any of us. He went with a friend’s family to the children’s museum in Raleigh on Wednesday. He left at 8:00 am and came home in the early afternoon. He had a BLAST and has been talking about it ever since.
- Brittany has been researching colleges and has a list pretty narrowed down. She wants to major in Anthropology (and possibly minor or double major in Art or Linguistics). She’s all signed up to take her SAT’s in October, and I need to get her signed up for the ACT’s. All the fun ‘senior’ stuff.
- Darby doesn’t really have much going on lately – just being busy being 9. I’d like to get her in a gymnastics class or something of the sort so she has an extracurricular activity. I missed the fall sign-ups (no funding was available – lol), but the winter classes start in November, so hopefully she’ll be able to do those.
- I think I’m going to start doing crossfit again. I want to get in shape and walking and yoga are great, but I want results FAST! I’ll let you know how it goes.
That’s all I got for now…
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my take:
I think “she” and “they” needs to be defined – if “she” is attacked – but the “mad” people that attack her have faith and self control – then “she” won’t have to go through child bearing??? maybe its like a scene out of a movie about something that went wrong?
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I believe ‘she’ is referring to the woman in the previous verses (wives). But ‘they’?? I want ‘they’ to be defined as well – and it’s just not.
More of my theories later though… I want to hear more thoughts. lol
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For me it personally means that my children drew me back to God. If it wasn’t for them and wanting them to be Christians…I would be who knows where. Their births saved me!
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I don’t mean that Christ didn’t save me, he did. But my children’s births drew me back to him at a time when I was going down the wrong path. I think the “they” my refer to the Husband and the Wife raising the children in a Godly way.
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I Tim. 2:15 – Refers to the fact that Jesus Christ would be born of a woman….thus providing the way of salvation. Jesus Christ was brought into this world through child bearing.
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Yay for Justice!
You have to read the prior verses…
I thought this summed it up rather well:“The words may also refer to the woman’s temporal deliverance in the time of travail; and the sense runs thus: “She shall be saved in child-bearing, that is, she shall go through the pains of child-birth with safety, if she continue in faith, putting her trust in God for deliverance, in charity exercising compassion to those in the like condition; and in the exercise of temperance, sobriety, and chastity, according to her matrimonial vow.”
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Ok, my thoughts on Timothy –
I feel like my Bible (NIV) makes it very clear. The verses before talk about how women should submit to men, because men were formed first and then if you start at 14
“And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. (15-)But women (the Greek she) will be saved (or restored) through childbearing – if they continue in faith love, and holiness with propriety.”
(I can’t help myself – “Don’t you know the meaning of propriety?!”)
So basically Eve screwed up big time for all women, and we kind of make up for it by having kids and raising them up right.
So maybe if Adam had eaten that apple, men would have to deal with bearing the children? lol.
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Question: “What does it mean that women will be “saved” through childbearing (1 Timothy 2:15)?”
Answer: This verse has been misinterpreted to mean that any woman who bears a child is automatically saved by virtue of the childbearing. First Timothy 2:15 is the conclusion of Paul’s teaching concerning the roles of men and women in the church which he began in verse 11. It is a notoriously difficult verse with a myriad of potential interpretations. “But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.” As always, the immediate context should serve in determining the precise meaning of a text. The preceding verse speaks of Eve’s deception at the Fall and the subsequent consequences.
In Genesis 3:16, God curses Eve with, “I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children.” This may seem to indicate that Paul meant that women would be physically preserved through the pain of childbirth. However, the verb used here in 1 Timothy 2:15 (soqhsetai) always carries the meaning of spiritual salvation in Paul’s writings. Further, Christian women still experience pain in childbirth, and sometimes die as a result of the childbearing process. If physical deliverance is the meaning of verse 15, then that would indicate that Christian women who die in childbirth perhaps did not “continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
A second option would be that women are spiritually saved through childbearing. This obviously cannot be the case, for it would contradict the consistent message of salvation by grace through faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:8–9). A third possibility is that the word “childbearing” (teknogonias) refers to the birth of Christ, potentially a link to Genesis 3:15 and the promise of a Seed to come through the woman. This is unlikely considering Paul nowhere refers to the birth of Christ in this manner. A reference to the incarnation seems dubious considering the context and the subject at hand.
The most likely interpretation that takes into account the immediate context is that rather than abandoning their intended roles by demanding teaching and authoritative positions in the church, women will find true fulfillment through childbearing. Paul is saying God calls women to be faithful, helpful wives, raising children to love and worship God and managing the household wisely (1 Timothy 5:14; Titus 2:3–5). While this view is not without its difficulties, it appears to harmonize best with the context and with remainder of Scripture.
Source: GotQuestions.org
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Loved all the comments!
Theresa – I like your practical application!
Josh – I read some commentaries that said just what you said, but I’m not so sure I agree (or disagree). One commentary claimed that the original Greek states “she will be saved in THE childbearing…” but it didn’t state how it knew that it said that. And it said that women would be saved by the birth of Jesus (if they [the women] continue in faith, etc…).
Matt – I agree that it needs to be taken in context with the rest of the verses around it. I also read some commentaries that thought it meant that childbirth would be easier if the woman was godly, but I’m not sure I agree with that line of thought. More of an explanation below.
Andrea – I tend to lean this way more than the others… Eve was deceived first (which goes along with why women shouldn’t be teaching men, but the other way around, because women are generally more easily deceived by false teaching than men), but even though they shouldn’t teach men, the rewards are great with having and raising children who have faith, love, holiness, and self-control.
I think “they” must be referring to the children. Because how would a woman be restored/rescued/satisfied with childbearing if her children turn out to be hooligans who don’t believe in God, are full of hate, and have no self-control?
I don’t think a woman’s pain in childbirth depends on her character at the time. I know wonderful Christian women who have had terrible experiences with childbirth and I know women who live their lives in sin who have an easy time in childbirth.
I’m still not positive on the meaning of the verse, but to sum up – my opinion is that the verse means that a woman can get her fulfillment through childbearing if her children have those godly qualities (which I think sums up what Trish was saying as well).
Any more thoughts?
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And apparently I use the word “because” when I don’t necessarily mean “because”. Whatever.
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